Patenting Experiences - Revision history

Mmorin: /* individual (optionally anonymous) opinions */

2020-10-28T10:35:36Z

‎individual (optionally anonymous) opinions

Mmorin at 10:34, 28 October 2020

2020-10-28T10:34:13Z

Mmorin: /* individual (optionally anonymous) opinions */

2020-10-03T10:17:12Z

‎individual (optionally anonymous) opinions

Mmorin: /* Miguel, September 2020 */

2020-09-29T20:43:35Z

‎Miguel, September 2020

Mmorin at 20:42, 29 September 2020

2020-09-29T20:42:25Z

Mmorin: /* Strategic considerations */

2020-09-27T16:10:17Z

‎Strategic considerations

Mmorin: /* Strategic considerations */

2020-09-27T16:09:51Z

‎Strategic considerations

Mmorin: /* Strategic considerations */

2020-09-27T15:58:07Z

‎Strategic considerations

Mmorin at 15:44, 27 September 2020

2020-09-27T15:44:11Z

Mkspcwk: /* First Rule of Patents */

2020-02-26T20:31:05Z

‎First Rule of Patents

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 If, like me, you're the kind of person who likes to publish inventions on Thingiverse and contribute to the community, any of those may be held as prior art against your further inventions, if only because they're yours and will be the first thing that an examiner searches for.
-I used and recommend Lock IP for the patent I filed (lock-ip.com). The attorney is smart, professional, and rigorous. He was recommended to me by another Makespace member who also filed a patent. I also had conversations with Basck (http://basck.com/), they have offices in continental Europe, India, Brazil, and the US, so they may be able to offer support in those areas.
+I used and recommend Lock IP for the patent I filed (http://lock-ip.com). The attorney is smart, professional, and rigorous. He was recommended to me by another Makespace member who also filed a patent.
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 (DISCLAIMER: This page content is not legal advice, and should not be construed as such.)

@@ Line 186: / Line 186: @@
 If, like me, you're the kind of person who likes to publish inventions on Thingiverse and contribute to the community, any of those may be held as prior art against your further inventions, if only because they're yours and will be the first thing that an examiner searches for.
-I used and recommend Lock IP for the patent I filed (lock-ip.com). The attorney is smart, professional, and rigorous. He was recommended to me by another Makespace member who also filed a patent.
+I used and recommend Lock IP for the patent I filed (lock-ip.com). The attorney is smart, professional, and rigorous. He was recommended to me by another Makespace member who also filed a patent. I also had conversations with Basck (http://basck.com/), they have offices in continental Europe, India, Brazil, and the US, so they may be able to offer support in those areas.
 ------------
 (DISCLAIMER: This page content is not legal advice, and should not be construed as such.)

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 If, like me, you're the kind of person who likes to publish inventions on Thingiverse and contribute to the community, any of those may be held as prior art against your further inventions, if only because they're yours and will be the first thing that an examiner searches for.
 ------------
 (DISCLAIMER: This page content is not legal advice, and should not be construed as such.)

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 With inventions meant for the general consumer, patents have less value compared to the brand and marketing, e.g. consumers buy the expensive Legos rather than copy-cats. For inventions meant for companies, patents have more value because companies are more price-sensitive and spend more time searching for alternatives, e.g. school districts would not buy the expensive Lego.
-Attorneys do not normally have a stake in the patent (e.g., equity in your company) and should give dispassionate and neutral advice. As attorneys have different opinions and track records, you may want to consult with a few, and they normally offer a free half hour.
+Attorneys do not normally have a stake in the patent (e.g., equity in your company) and should give dispassionate and neutral advice. As attorneys have different opinions and experience, you may want to consult with a few, and they normally offer a free half hour. Attorney-client confidentiality means that you do not need to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement when talking to an attorney.
 Exercise judgment before deciding to file a patent. You may end up spending significant time and money when good marketing brand building could have more results.

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 ==Strategic considerations==
-* '''Grace period''': You can file a patent with the UK IPO, which gives you 12 months to disclose your patent publicly without losing the right to patent in other countries. So you can file the patent, which gives you the right to include the words "patent-pending", and talk to customers, investors, or competitors to gauge the value of your invention before you spend a lot of money with applications in each individual country. Read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_(patent).
+* '''Grace period''': You can file a patent with the UK IPO, which gives you 12 months to disclose your patent publicly without losing the right to patent in other countries. So you can file the patent, which gives you the right to include the words "patent-pending", and talk to customers, investors, or competitors to gauge the value of your invention before you spend a lot of money with applications in each individual country. The rules are complicated in other countries, see below.  Read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_(patent).
 * '''Patent Cooperation Treaty''': This allows you to "buy more time." Before the expiry of the grace period (usually 12 months), you would normally need to file applications in individual countries. But you can also file a Patent Cooperation Treaty application with the WIPO in Geneva, which effectively extends the grace period worldwide for another 18 months. The cost is around £3,700. In total, you can have 2.5 years to gauge the value of your patent before submitting in each country. Two caveats are that (1) several middle-Eastern and Gulf states are not signatories to the PCT; and (2) if you file a PCT application, you cannot file a patent in France, you must instead file a European patent designating France. Read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_cooperation_treaty#Publication .
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 * '''Market size''': for consumer goods, you can file in some bigger countries and use the brand to "spill-over" nearby markets. For example, the Canada and the US have such integrated markets, and Canada is so small compared to the US, that it makes little sense to file in both.
 == 1st Patenting experience meeting at Makespace ==
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 With inventions meant for the general consumer, patents have less value compared to the brand and marketing, e.g. consumers buy the expensive Legos rather than copy-cats. For inventions meant for companies, patents have more value because companies are more price-sensitive and spend more time searching for alternatives, e.g. school districts would not buy the expensive Lego.
-Exercise judgment before deciding to file a patent. Some attorneys may be biased because they have no stake in the game, they get paid whatever the result. You may end up spending significant time and money when good marketing brand building could have more results.
+Attorneys do not normally have a stake in the patent (e.g., equity in your company) and should give dispassionate and neutral advice. As attorneys have different opinions and track records, you may want to consult with a few, and they normally offer a free half hour.
 If, like me, you're the kind of person who likes to publish inventions on Thingiverse and contribute to the community, any of those may be held as prior art against your further inventions, if only because they're yours and will be the first thing that an examiner searches for.

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 * '''Is it non-obvious?''': In the UK and Europe, IP Offices approach non-obviousness by asking first "what problem does this solve?" And then, "Is the way that it solves the problem inventive?"
-* '''UK search''': After filing a patent, you can file a search request at the UK Patent Office. The results normally take 4 months, so people generally do it 6 months before the expiry of the grace period. This will give you an idea of how an examiner will approach an application, and if there are going to be any highly troublesome search results. It's very likely that the most relevant would be found, although this isn't 100% guaranteed. You can then use this to make an informed decision about filing overseas. A UK search costs £400.
+* '''UK search''': After filing a patent, you can file a search request at the UK Patent Office. The results normally take 4 months, so people generally do it 6 months before the expiry of the grace period. This will give you an idea of how an examiner will approach an application, and if there are going to be any highly troublesome search results. It's very likely that the most relevant would be found, although this isn't 100% guaranteed. You can then use this to make an informed decision about filing overseas. A UK search costs around £400 plus attorney fees.
 * '''Include as many claims as possible''': After submitting a patent application, you can only remove "claims" (individual aspects of novelty or invention), you cannot add them. So you should include as many claims as you find plausible.

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 * '''Patent Cooperation Treaty''': This allows you to "buy more time." Before the expiry of the grace period (usually 12 months), you would normally need to file applications in individual countries. But you can also file a Patent Cooperation Treaty application with the WIPO in Geneva, which effectively extends the grace period worldwide for another 18 months. The cost is around £3,700. In total, you can have 2.5 years to gauge the value of your patent before submitting in each country. Two caveats are that (1) several middle-Eastern and Gulf states are not signatories to the PCT; and (2) if you file a PCT application, you cannot file a patent in France, you must instead file a European patent designating France. Read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_cooperation_treaty#Publication .
 * '''UK search''': After filing a patent, you can file a search request at the UK Patent Office. This will give you an idea of how an examiner will approach an application, and if there are going to be any highly troublesome search results. It's very likely that the most relevant would be found, although this isn't 100% guaranteed. You can then use this to make an informed decision about filing overseas. A UK search costs £400.
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 * '''micro-entities in the US''': The US IPO offers 75% reduction for micro-entities. Read more at: https://www.uspto.gov/patents-getting-started/general-information-concerning-patents .
-* '''Provisional patent application in the US''': you can file this application, which has no review and costs between 65 and 260 dollars, and you can use "patent-pending."
+* '''Provisional patent application in the US''': you can file this application, which has no review and costs between 65 and 260 dollars, and you can use "patent-pending." Read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_patent_application and some advice at https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenkey/2018/01/08/dont-file-that-patent-yet-file-a-provisional-patent-application-first/
 Read more at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_patent_application and some advice at https://www.forbes.com/sites/stephenkey/2018/01/08/dont-file-that-patent-yet-file-a-provisional-patent-application-first/
 * '''European patent''': Europe can be treated as a single country for patent purposes with a centralised application that is searched and examined, and then translated if successful.
 == 1st Patenting experience meeting at Makespace ==

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 |   800 - 4000
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 == 1st Patenting experience meeting at Makespace ==
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 * if you were buying a house you'd consult a professional, after all
 * Nash Matthews, Hills Rd, CB: they offer ½ hour consultation at no cost, very friendly, bright people
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 (DISCLAIMER: This page content is not legal advice, and should not be construed as such.)

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 == First Rule of Patents==
-... is don’t talk about patents.
+... is don’t talk about patents!
-Or more accurately, if you think you have a patentable invention, be careful about discussing the specifics about it with anyone until you have the patent filed. Most particularly don’t talk about it on the internet. The risk is that if you accidentally publish the details of your idea, that can constitute prior art that would prevent your patent being issued, or could invalidate you patent if it is later challenged in court. Or that someone you tell casually could write up and patent the idea before you and gain priority.
+Or more accurately, if you think you have a patentable invention, be careful about discussing the specifics about it with anyone until you have the patent filed. Most particularly don’t talk about it on the internet. The risk is that if you accidentally publish the details of your idea, that can constitute prior art that would prevent your patent being issued, or could invalidate your patent if it is later challenged in court. Or that someone you tell casually could write up and patent the idea before you and gain priority.
 That said, don’t be too paranoid, just be careful.
-You can talk to people about your invention if you have a written non disclosure agreement (NDA) with them.
+You can talk to people about your invention if you have a written non-disclosure agreement (NDA) signed with them.
 ==What is a Patent==